[00:00:00] Intro.
You're listening to the Motorsport Prospects Podcast.
Hey, it's Mark from Motorsport Prospects and welcome to the Motorsport Prospects Podcast. This is where we dive into the world of motorsport with the people who live and breathe it from. From driver coaches and sponsorship experts to team owners, pro drivers and more. You'll hear real stories, practical advice and insights you can actually use, whether you're just starting out or already chasing success on the track.
Now, if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that the reason I started Motorsport Prospects and the Verified by Motorsport Prospects designation is because I continuously hear the same question time and again from drivers, aspiring drivers, their families and advisors. And that's always who can I trust? They are often struggling to find reliable guidance, so I created Motorsport Prospects to help them make informed decisions. The professionals I feature on this podcast represent that trust. That being said, if you work with drivers or racing teams, building trust is one of the most important things you can do, as I've just mentioned.
So over the years I found that being clear about what you offer, following through on your promises, and genuinely caring about your clients goals makes all the difference. I put together some practical advice in a free white paper called the Three Essentials for Motorsport Business Owners, which shares simple ways to strengthen relationships, attract the right clients and grow your motorsport business. Naturally, you can find a link to this paper in the Show Notes or
[email protected] so let's get started with this week's guest.
My guest today is Jason Fulk.
Jason is a business litigator and Motorsports lawyer with 20 plus years of broad business experience as general counsel and law firm litigation partner. He's experienced in contract negotiation and drafting, litigation, managing outside counsel and insurance coverage issues as well as being a driver manager himself. He. He's based in Indianapolis. Welcome to the Motorsport Prospects Podcast. Jason. Thanks so much for taking the time out to speak with me.
[00:02:18] Jason Fulk: Yeah, happy to be here Mark. Very nice to meet you earlier today.
[00:02:21] Mark Boudreau: Yeah, great. Now you know, being a fellow lawyer, I always like to say that lawyers are somebody that people often don't particularly like, but when they need us, they absolutely love us.
So with that being said, based on your experience, what would be the one most important piece of advice you could offer a current or race or aspiring race driver?
[00:02:49] Jason Fulk: Yeah, for sure. And Mark, you mentioned that I've been a driver manager at different points in my career and I thought I would take take that role for purposes of this podcast instead of being the lawyer that in motorsports in particular, most folks don't exactly like to deal with.
So my advice to aspiring drivers or their parents or their business partners when they're looking for a manager is to ask themselves, you know, what exactly does that role mean to you, and what do you want or need out of the relationship?
Do you need somebody to be your driver coach? Do you need somebody to do your legal work? Do you need somebody to find sponsorship? Do you need somebody with, you know, relationships? And in the paddock, which paddocks? Do you need somebody with racing experience in acumen that knows the language?
You need all of that.
I think managers do a lot of different things. All of the things I mentioned are distinctly different skills, and certainly not one person has all of them. So you got to think about what basis do you already have covered and what kind of advice and relationship do you need in particular for your situation?
How I see the role of a manager is sort of at the center of the hub for all of the things that a young or an experienced driver needs.
Travel, legal, budget handling, teams, team relationships, handling potential sponsor, sponsor relationships, sometimes handling relationships with mom and dad, depending on the dynamic and age.
[00:04:37] Mark Boudreau: Right?
[00:04:38] Jason Fulk: Immigration, visas, accounting. It goes. It goes on and on.
Your manager can probably do a lot of those things and should be doing a lot of those things. But again, not everybody has the same skill set and can cover all the bases. So figure out what's important to you.
[00:04:55] Mark Boudreau: And I think one of the issues often, especially when it comes to lawyers, and by definition, I think quite a few driver managers are lawyers, is that people tend not to ask many questions. Ironically enough, I don't know if it's because they feel intimidated by the fact that they're speaking to a lawyer, but I've always been a proponent of ask as many questions as possible because it's extremely important to know what you're getting into. And if you don't understand, for example, you talk about visas and immigration.
That is a major issue that is not particularly well understood. People assume they can just show up at a track in whatever country and drive. They don't tend to ask those questions. And unfortunately, it could either become an expensive issue at the end, or it could actually prevent them from racing. So do you find that that is a. That is something that you. You deal with? You almost have to coax these questions out of people in order to figure out what it is exactly that they're looking for?
[00:06:04] Jason Fulk: Yeah, for sure. I mean, that. That sort of thing comes at the outset of the discussion because a lot of times people don't know what they need and especially, you know, newer drivers who are maybe a couple rungs up the ladder and they're getting to a point where there's a lot of external pressures. The money, the financial commitment is higher.
Maybe mom or dad who is a business person and has some kind of savvy is sort of getting to the point where they, maybe they've got business partners who are helping fund the career and the pressures are, are, have come to an extent that they are maybe a bit out of their depth as far as what they're, what they're getting or should be getting from a team or a sponsor out of a relationship.
[00:06:47] Mark Boudreau: Right.
[00:06:48] Jason Fulk: So the, you know, the manager's role and frankly the lawyer's role as well, if we want to limit it to that, should be asking those questions and help pulling the information out and figuring out what the client knows and what they don't know.
Because most of the time it's what you can't ask questions about what you don't know.
[00:07:10] Mark Boudreau: Exactly.
[00:07:11] Jason Fulk: You've got to fill the blind spots for your clients in those situations.
[00:07:15] Mark Boudreau: Right. Do you find that the needs of, for example, an aspiring driver, so a young driver trying to make it into, let's say single seaters or sports cars versus an independent driver or so called gentleman driver that are racing, that are essentially paying to race and paying to race their passion, do you find that their needs are, are similar, different?
[00:07:42] Jason Fulk: You know, the gentleman driver is, is usually very well funded. It's his own money or her own money and they, they spend it to get the ride that, you know, they want. Under the circumstances, I think the needs of a young driver are a lot different. They, they've got different pressures.
A lot of them choose to focus time on social media, driving and in the gym. That's where they should be spending their time and the manager should be spending time doing all the things that, you know, the driver or their family don't want to do.
[00:08:13] Mark Boudreau: Right. You
[00:08:13] Jason Fulk: know, I personally don't like mowing the yard, so I pay somebody to mow my yard.
So, you know, that's what the driver and their family and their sponsors should be doing is paying for the things that they either don't have the capacity or skill set to do or they just don't want to do.
[00:08:31] Mark Boudreau: Right.
[00:08:31] Jason Fulk: And the manager should openly fill all those roles or be the center of the hub that can help pull all those pieces and manage all those pieces together for the driver.
[00:08:39] Mark Boudreau: Right. Now, how important going on the, on the legal side of things, how important is a lawyer understanding the, the nuances of motorsport law, whether it comes to contracts, you know, well, contracts, driver contracts, sponsorship, you know, I've always found that motorsport, there's sports law and then there's motorsport law. And there are nuances that I've always felt that were important that a lawyer did understand those. But do you feel that same or do you feel essentially that, you know, a general litigate or any kind of a lawyer, business lawyer could, could, could deal with the issues?
[00:09:20] Jason Fulk: Do I think any kind of lawyer could deal with the issues? Yeah. Do I think they could deal with them? Well, absolutely not.
[00:09:25] Mark Boudreau: Oh,
[00:09:26] Jason Fulk: it's just like any other field of law or any other profession, you know, motorsports have language that's spoken and if you don't speak that language, if you don't know the lingo, then you're not going to get the gist of the contracts, you're going to miss what you should get, and you're certainly not going to be able to communicate, well, incredibly with team owners and other constituents in the paddock that you need to deal with to get a deal done.
So, you know, I, I often have young college students or lawyers come to me and ask me, you know, what should I take in school to become a, a motorsports lawyer? And I, you know, I start with telling them that motorsports law is not really a thing. It is, it is just law. It is, it is effectively business law IP different kinds of law that come together in this unique aspect of, of sport which, you know, more and more happens to be a business and it's in and of itself.
[00:10:23] Mark Boudreau: Right.
So before I let you go and I really appreciate the time, I have one final question.
Favorite racetrack, current or historical? What would that be
[00:10:39] Jason Fulk: for me? I don't, I don't have the answer. That's, that's driven by the same considerations as, as a lot of people who want to talk about a technical track layout or anything. Like, my favorite track is Sonoma Raceway.
And that's, that's. There's two reasons for that. One, that's, that's the place where I got my first major deal done as a, as a motorsports manager and proved myself that I was actually capable of doing the job.
And second, it's just a place where I have a lot of good memories. I've spent a lot of time in the IndyCar Indy next, former formerly Indy Lights paddock.
Sonoma was for quite a while the last race of the season. So I have just so many great memories of being at that track with people.
The circus closing for the year and then going off to wine country with friends and meeting new friends and you know, forming relationships in the paddock that you know, persists to this day.
[00:11:36] Mark Boudreau: Yeah, it's a gorgeous track, gorgeous area of the country.
For those listening, how would they get a hold of you?
[00:11:47] Jason Fulk: Go to my website. That's the easiest way. Jfolk legal.com J F U L K legal.com as you said, I'm here based in Indianapolis in the right in the middle of the US open wheel community so I'm easy to find.
[00:12:03] Mark Boudreau: Perfect. And I will post the links to to your website on the on in the show notes.
Jason, I really appreciate the time. It's been very instructive and it's always fun to talk law with with, with another lawyer. But I think you brought up some important points that for those listening that, that are drivers things that they should consider. I, I'm, I'm a, I'm a huge proponent of using, you know, using legal professionals for what they're there for, which is ensuring that contracts are are to the benefit of of the person signing them.
And you know, despite the world of AI, you still need an actual human lawyer to review these things and is certainly somebody with motorsport experience. So I really appreciate the time.
[00:12:58] Jason Fulk: Yeah, thank you for having me on, Mark, and for investing all your time in this new useful project that, that you've started.
[00:13:05] Mark Boudreau: Thanks. Thanks so much. Well, that's it for this week. This is Mark from Motorsport Prospects reminding you to stay fast, stay focused and keep chasing that checkered flag.
Thanks for listening to the Motorsport Prospects podcast. For insights, advice and the latest news racers can use, visit motorsportprospects.com.
